Défiscalisation De Robien : Illusions and setbacks.
This document was prepared so that future purchasers of a "turnkey" for tax exemption De Robien Scellier or any other "tax package" may be aware of that can hide a commercial offer, a priori attractive, combining real estate, tax credit ... deception, embezzlement, fraud and scam.
Chronology of events:
Step 1: Sellers.
We are in July 2002, I received a phone call at my place of work, organization, IFB , posing as heritage consultant, specializing in tax reduction. After a few questions about my income (salary and housing) appointment is made to offer me the solution "most appropriate" to my financial and tax situation.
The July 27, 2002, presents the so-called counselor, a woman early fifties, well dressed and polite the whole business. She presents her company, based in Toulouse. She explains that the best specialists of the group have discussed my case (already?), And that , they concluded that the appropriate solution is: The tax exemption Besson (De Robien No one came that a year later) through the acquisition and leasing of real estate.
I point out that in the current situation, buying an apartment was inconceivable, because the debt ratio exceeds the ceiling authorized me as the bank. She then proceeds
concept of turnkey I do not mind! The property is purchased with a management contract by a third party ( Active + become AKERYS ), which guaranteed me 6 months of first occupation and the shortcomings of rent until to 24 months. Of course, she details the extent Besson : obligation to rent for 9 years with a tenant whose income is capped, but I do not do all this is taken into account by the company Cap Management ( become today AKERYS Management ).
course I entitled to a personalized study as a basis of work at "tax" of the group, so that if they determine that the property would suit me best.
I told him I'll take the proposal into account, study longer, and that I should not fail to recall her for more information about a concept that, admittedly attracted me because it was straight toward the goal I set myself: building a property portfolio.
Step 2: The concrete proposal.
After investigating IFB , I want to compare their offer with what its competitors offer. I am inquiring with a work colleague, who is talks with a company proposing a similar concept with a twist: The resale price of the apartment after 9 years is guaranteed at the price of purchase. This difference is important and I take an appointment with the "counselor."
During his visit, surprise, the best specialists of the company (even themselves) have unearthed the apartment that best suits my situation. This is obviously a apartment built by 4M Promotion (now AKERYS since), a company in their group (hey?), located 660 km from my home, all the papers are ready for booking. Found it a bit rushed, I submit some questions:
Q: What will happen it if the apartment is not rented after the first 6 months?
A: Do not worry, the market research of IFB are particularly refined to not know what kind of trouble. do not forget that you have a larger group of French as a designer.
Q: Why an apartment so far?
A: The programs are designed with care, with the aim to guarantee the rental and resale. Analyses show that the place is conducive to the operation.
Q: What 'is it a guarantee of resale?
A: No problem! Real estate is not ready to drop, and the quality of materials that this apartment is highly rated at its resale.
After some hesitation regarding the removal of the property, she reassures me reminding me that the concept has been specially created for investors unwilling to take care themselves of their apartment, everything was taken care of by management Cape .
Very influenced by all these positive aspects, and a little under the pressure of "counselor," I sign the booking of the apartment.
few days later, having been thinking about all this calmly, I decide to cancel this reservation, without abandoning the concept. This decision was taken for reasons that I find personally most like: environment of this apartment.
In fact, I was ready to ignore the distance, but not the frame, where housing was part of a building which had over 150, which recalled the bars HLM years 50-60.
The "counselor" in a panic resumed immediately appointments, and, oh lucky can offer me exactly what I was looking for. This is a new program that starts, available late 2003. This program includes a few small buildings, no more than 2 levels each, on a closed field, with entrance digital code, and to reassure me, only 450 km from home. A bargain! As according to my wishes, I sign, and this contract, m'affilie the association of owners EDC (Euro Delta Council) (required the first year) and pays the share from August to December , an annual fee of 140 €. (Hey, this association is managed by the same people as the company with which I have to conclude ...)
advantage of the holidays, I travel to the site where the apartment from the ground. Good surprise: the environment is consistent with my expectations, located near a residential area, on top of a hill. I am confident.
Step 3: The first cracks.
few days after booking, I received a letter warning me that the City Hall where the property is located has imposed gas as a heating source for new construction. So I choose to sign a lease / purchase of the boiler, or to integrate the purchase price. Opting for the latter, I sign with IFB , a new booking contract at a cost of raised € 1,900.
In September, call on call the "Advisor" must quickly sign with the notary. Thus we have September 16, 2002 in the latter, and it passes quickly through each page of the contract, but it goes very quickly because it is a contract everything that 'there are more standard, and the undersigned as well as "consultant" have a great experience all this (is what they explained to me). I quickly dispatched takes leave of the notary, and the car park, "Councillor" offers me to remind me to invite me to dinner with my girlfriend in a restaurant of my choice, just to celebrate.
It goes without saying that this is the last time I saw and heard that person!
The year 2003 was without any new project, except:
- a letter which I noted that I have not referred the case of rental / sale of the boiler. I replied that it was included in the purchase price, and enclose a copy of the original mail.
- A call asking me if I consent to receive the measure De Robien instead of Besson, which is possible because the apartment was purchased prior to completion. I hesitate
not a second, De Robien being less restrictive conditions on the lease.
end of 2003, no news.
early 2004, after several phone calls from me, someone from the owners' association told me that the work was a little late, that the apartment will be delivered in April. No problems for me.
April 2004, still no new contacts with Euro Delta Council promises me that, after several reminders re my hand delivery in June
End of June 2004, no news, I let the summer and autumn, I am certifying that the apartment will be available in November 2004.
January 2005, the work is completed, 13 months after the due date, without any explanation, no apologies. I already lost a year of tax exemption !
February 2005, handing over the keys is made between the developer and Cap Management ( AKERYS Management) currents February 2005, the PV has received few details to finish again. Mid-February 2005, he was finally free to hire. I remember has insurance that covers my first 6 months of non-occupancy (after 1 month of waiting).
May 2005, no new call and was told that a prospective tenant is found, and that it checks its solvency.
June 2005, still no news, I contacted the management agency to visit the apartment because I'm starting to smell a mess. It is not normal that a brand new apartment is struggling to rent ... 5 months, whereas, according IFB programs were carefully chosen, precisely to foster the use without problems??
Step 4: The first scam.
July 2005, after having swallowed 450 km, I arrived on site, and notes that the exteriors are not completed, six months after delivery. I enter the building or apartment and is located immediately realize that we are there in the entry level for quality construction. If everything is still clean as new, the paintings are of poor quality, the stairwell sounds like a cathedral of the Middle Ages .
Finally, I enter what occupies my mind for 3 years now, and that was suppose to consolidate this position very envied LAND OWNER, as, again, always ready to put aside all wickedness encountered so far.
OUCH!
From the first glance, I noticed that the wallpapers are loose, the joints of tiles on the baseboards were not cleaned to give an impression of "work in progress." These problems exist in all parts. The doors are painted with a matt paint, rough to the touch, and looks more like a first layer that 'to finish, but all that remains of the order of detail (if you consider the € 96,900 as detail). The bathroom is not finished, and the wall separating the living room is raised through!
I now understand why this apartment can not find a tenant. Who would pay € 405 per month to live in an apartment over evil?
To put all the chances on my side, and not waste time in Loved son who offer no result, I mandated a bailiff to make an official assessment of the state of housing. Holidays are spent in correspondence with the sponsor, with the bailiff calls.
Step 4: The second scam.
meantime, I'm new impetus for the lease / sale of the boiler that I have, I paid € 1,900 points three years ago! It comes as a terrible doubt: Am I in my possession a document certifying that the boiler is me?
So I put myself in search of such a document, and finally realized that I did no such thing. So I read the sales contract, one that was supposedly standard that did not need to be deepened, and notes that it is a paragraph stating that I am aware of the possibility of renting the boiler or acquire it, and that "... it is knowingly that it chose to conclude the day with company X a lease / purchase of the boiler concurrently with this deed. "
June 2005, still no news, I contacted the management agency to visit the apartment because I'm starting to smell a mess. It is not normal that a brand new apartment is struggling to rent ... 5 months, whereas, according IFB programs were carefully chosen, precisely to foster the use without problems??
Step 4: The first scam.
July 2005, after having swallowed 450 km, I arrived on site, and notes that the exteriors are not completed, six months after delivery. I enter the building or apartment and is located immediately realize that we are there in the entry level for quality construction. If everything is still clean as new, the paintings are of poor quality, the stairwell sounds like a cathedral of the Middle Ages .
Finally, I enter what occupies my mind for 3 years now, and that was suppose to consolidate this position very envied LAND OWNER, as, again, always ready to put aside all wickedness encountered so far.
OUCH!
From the first glance, I noticed that the wallpapers are loose, the joints of tiles on the baseboards were not cleaned to give an impression of "work in progress." These problems exist in all parts. The doors are painted with a matt paint, rough to the touch, and looks more like a first layer that 'to finish, but all that remains of the order of detail (if you consider the € 96,900 as detail). The bathroom is not finished, and the wall separating the living room is raised through!
I now understand why this apartment can not find a tenant. Who would pay € 405 per month to live in an apartment over evil?
To put all the chances on my side, and not waste time in Loved son who offer no result, I mandated a bailiff to make an official assessment of the state of housing. Holidays are spent in correspondence with the sponsor, with the bailiff calls.
Step 4: The second scam.
meantime, I'm new impetus for the lease / sale of the boiler that I have, I paid € 1,900 points three years ago! It comes as a terrible doubt: Am I in my possession a document certifying that the boiler is me?
So I put myself in search of such a document, and finally realized that I did no such thing. So I read the sales contract, one that was supposedly standard that did not need to be deepened, and notes that it is a paragraph stating that I am aware of the possibility of renting the boiler or acquire it, and that "... it is knowingly that it chose to conclude the day with company X a lease / purchase of the boiler concurrently with this deed. "
Horror! IFB drove me of 1,900 €.
Thus began an exchange of emails with the association supposed to protect my interests, as naive as I am, I still hope that even someone a will, for once do its job properly.
This email exchange will last four months, without moving anything at all. But what are the 140 € of annual dues? (Hey, I just realize that the year delay in delivery also made me pay an assessment year Additional ...)
October 2005, I am summoned to the approval of the work of rehabilitation of housing. Once there, surprise! An official of AKERYS "especially moved" to see me. Site visit, reservations are lifted, I am about to leave when I notice now that the wall parallel to the wall opposite, no longer perpendicular to the ground! Indeed, there are 8 cm more width at the top of the wall. property of a new PV and here we go again for a discount in state, 900 km return and a new inventory.
On the way back, I think about all this, and gradually as I go through my musings, a new doubt seized me. One of these concerns that gives you cold sweats and chills in the back. I'm starting to see an end to everything macabre scenario, and could constitute fraud supreme. To prepare myself for the worst, I put myself in connection with a lawyer whom I expose the facts and my fears.
Step 4: The Supreme scam.
November 2005 No news.
December 2005, no news.
Beginning in January 2006, approval of the apartment, he complies. The exteriors are not always facts. The matter is now in the hands of the lawyer who asked that the costs of the poor condition of the apartment I be reimbursed (Usher, travel ...). It also hands the case of the boiler.
Mid January 2006, my lawyer will contact the person in charge of hiring to determine if the apartment had been sold. This tells us that it credit check is a potential tenant (Hey, I heard that ...). So we come to the conclusion that this apartment will not see a tenant for at least a month, and what I feared, what why everything has been falling apart:
The tax exemption De Robien no longer possible because the property has not been rented for a year after delivery. The full benefit of the operation has gone up in smoke, the whole point of the concept has melted like snow in the sun.
In an instant, I spend the investor Real Estate, owner of a property from € 96,900 (value 2002), landlord to the tune of 405 € / month, the beneficiary of a tax credit of € 18,734 encrypted IFB , an owner of a empty apartment, in front of 700 € / month for repayment of bank loan.
Step 5: bitter conclusions.
1) Who agrees on what? Rereading documents drawn between the various parties, I realize that society designer IFB project undertakes no obligation in the case. It subcontracts the construction and sale to the developer AKERYS who sells you the apartment. Then you sign some guarantees with the property management company C, and you adhere to the Homeowners Association EDC . These companies are all the same group, managed by the same people. Nothing in the concept of tax exemption, not the contractually bind to one another .
My first idea was to initiate legal proceedings to quash the sale of the apartment, because all this was staged for the benefit of tax exemption , something that I can no longer enjoy.
This can not be done because the concept is offered by IFB , but sold by AKERYS . I can not cons AKERYS in terms of the sale.
2) Why an apartment so far? The remoteness of the apartment has no interest to them that be on that property managers will be in one of their companies at rates higher than what is usually done. That their is also that you do not put your nose in what could be a source of hassle for them: more than average quality construction.
3) What happens adviser in all this? The "recommended" is neither more nor less, that a seller, apartment, which, once the case is signed, disappears into the wild. In my case, after 6 months of silence, I learned that the person was no longer part of the group and his deputy advised me to turn to the Homeowners Association Euro Delta Council, you know, the one who is supposed to defend myself and that is managed by the same people that the company's designer package.
This email exchange will last four months, without moving anything at all. But what are the 140 € of annual dues? (Hey, I just realize that the year delay in delivery also made me pay an assessment year Additional ...)
October 2005, I am summoned to the approval of the work of rehabilitation of housing. Once there, surprise! An official of AKERYS "especially moved" to see me. Site visit, reservations are lifted, I am about to leave when I notice now that the wall parallel to the wall opposite, no longer perpendicular to the ground! Indeed, there are 8 cm more width at the top of the wall. property of a new PV and here we go again for a discount in state, 900 km return and a new inventory.
On the way back, I think about all this, and gradually as I go through my musings, a new doubt seized me. One of these concerns that gives you cold sweats and chills in the back. I'm starting to see an end to everything macabre scenario, and could constitute fraud supreme. To prepare myself for the worst, I put myself in connection with a lawyer whom I expose the facts and my fears.
Step 4: The Supreme scam.
November 2005 No news.
December 2005, no news.
Beginning in January 2006, approval of the apartment, he complies. The exteriors are not always facts. The matter is now in the hands of the lawyer who asked that the costs of the poor condition of the apartment I be reimbursed (Usher, travel ...). It also hands the case of the boiler.
Mid January 2006, my lawyer will contact the person in charge of hiring to determine if the apartment had been sold. This tells us that it credit check is a potential tenant (Hey, I heard that ...). So we come to the conclusion that this apartment will not see a tenant for at least a month, and what I feared, what why everything has been falling apart:
The tax exemption De Robien no longer possible because the property has not been rented for a year after delivery. The full benefit of the operation has gone up in smoke, the whole point of the concept has melted like snow in the sun.
In an instant, I spend the investor Real Estate, owner of a property from € 96,900 (value 2002), landlord to the tune of 405 € / month, the beneficiary of a tax credit of € 18,734 encrypted IFB , an owner of a empty apartment, in front of 700 € / month for repayment of bank loan.
Step 5: bitter conclusions.
1) Who agrees on what? Rereading documents drawn between the various parties, I realize that society designer IFB project undertakes no obligation in the case. It subcontracts the construction and sale to the developer AKERYS who sells you the apartment. Then you sign some guarantees with the property management company C, and you adhere to the Homeowners Association EDC . These companies are all the same group, managed by the same people. Nothing in the concept of tax exemption, not the contractually bind to one another .
My first idea was to initiate legal proceedings to quash the sale of the apartment, because all this was staged for the benefit of tax exemption , something that I can no longer enjoy.
This can not be done because the concept is offered by IFB , but sold by AKERYS . I can not cons AKERYS in terms of the sale.
2) Why an apartment so far? The remoteness of the apartment has no interest to them that be on that property managers will be in one of their companies at rates higher than what is usually done. That their is also that you do not put your nose in what could be a source of hassle for them: more than average quality construction.
3) What happens adviser in all this? The "recommended" is neither more nor less, that a seller, apartment, which, once the case is signed, disappears into the wild. In my case, after 6 months of silence, I learned that the person was no longer part of the group and his deputy advised me to turn to the Homeowners Association Euro Delta Council, you know, the one who is supposed to defend myself and that is managed by the same people that the company's designer package.
Step 6: and then?
July 2006: the apartment was sold or the price I bought it, (without knowing whether the boiler is mine, though paid). Having consulted three real estate agencies, the most pessimistic estimate amounted to 65,000 €, the most optimistic results in an amount of 75,000 €, what makes me € 22,000 net loss plus non-tax exemption of € 18,734, plus attorney's fees, bailiff, travel and do not forget the loan interest payments for two years.
November 2006: New legislation requires the sale of an apartment requires an Energy Performance Certificate and a Certificate of surface. News (bad) surprises :
* The apartment is not 53.95 but 50.78 m2 m2.
* The conventional consomation kWhep/m2 is 312, which places it at the end of class E (A being the best and G the worst).
* Emissions of greenhouse gas emissions are 73 kgCO2/m2 year, which places it in the end gatégorie F .
That reassured about the quality of construction work undertaken by the company AKERYS .
December 2006: after twenty visits, the first proposal to purchase € 75,000 or € 21,900 below what I paid. I let a little time ...
February 2007 : after a year of exchanging emails, IFB decides to refund me the boiler. So I sell an apartment for which the prospective purchaser must also rent or buy the boiler ... I decided to redeem myself to put all chances on my side.
May 2007: any proposal to purchase since December 2006, and still € 700 Money Back Loan which falls every month ...
December 2007: receiving a recommended lawyer to IFB putting me in default, under penalty of prosecution, to immediately suspend this blog, considering my comments and your reactions defamatory. This is an opportunity for my lawyer to contact them again and to submit their liabilities in this case ... more news from them.
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May 2007: any proposal to purchase since December 2006, and still € 700 Money Back Loan which falls every month ...
December 2007: receiving a recommended lawyer to IFB putting me in default, under penalty of prosecution, to immediately suspend this blog, considering my comments and your reactions defamatory. This is an opportunity for my lawyer to contact them again and to submit their liabilities in this case ... more news from them.
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April 2008: this case is revealed in the report "The Robien of Wrath" published April 17, 2008, which outlined methods of some companies selling package Robien. There is also shown with how "serious" these packages are installed. Everything is there: the remoteness of the property, finishing more than average, we take care of anything, the lack of rental demand, implementation inappropriately buildings ... etc..
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September 2008: have not heard from anyone, and after I learned about the different ways to initiate court proceedings, I decided to change lawyers and go through.
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April 2009: The assignment is made before the Tribunal de Grande Instance de Toulouse. No news since.
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I hope those who will invest in this kind of formula will be a little less naive than me. It is to avoid errors " basic "this document was prepared by wishing everyone who reads it, greater vigilance on a concept that is certainly not bad, provided they are dealing with serious people, and in this area, they are not legions!
Good investment.
Good investment.
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